As you may have noticed there is a very lively conversation happening around the hot topic of getting compensated for working within the SEEDS ecosystem.
How can we create the necessary value flow which allows SEEDS to meet the needs of the very people who nurture it through their dedicated efforts?
What are possible compensation models which feel balanced?
There are lots of posts around these issues on various Discord channels.
Here is a good example (followed by more good examples):
As you may have noticed there is a very lively conversation happening around the hot topic of getting compensated for working within the SEEDS ecosystem.
Most essential step in order to start this analysis one must take a look at this SEEDs token allocation and economics (at least the first page).
Who is responsible organization currently behind tlosto.seeds issuance round? Why does this relationship exist with Hypha?
What does SEEDs and seeds truly represent? Slice of that can be seen here in token.seeds transactions. Are they abundantly flowing, especially considering we are attempting to seed abundance!
Who is truly responsible to seed this abundance of Hope, that comes with vision of Regenerative Regennaissance? Hypha MBC i.e. SEEDs Movement - building circle? Compensated by Hypha Treasury, only slices of deep account could be found upon digging, for here under Hypha - Endorse Contribution, this one being for MBC cirlces SubCircle names Events and Festival.
Exploratory discussion on discord around most recent MBC proposal empowering and weaving people and organizations at every level, where people spoke about the relatioship in Question around SEEDs community, Hypha MBC, Hypha DHO and possiblity of SEEDs DHO.
For currently there are SEEDS bounties for Ambassadors being offered by Hypha MBC, so what does that mean financially speaking?
USD or BTC raised through “token.seeds” issuance goes to fund this operations, what should they ideally look like in terms of financial flow, and then that will determine how Seedizens get compensated.
Thus Seedizens belong to which Nation?
This has been by far the most useful breakdown I have seen to date. Huge respect, Aryabhatta
Is there an update for this chart?
To me this is by far the most important topic when it comes to the grassroots movement of SEEDS. I believe if we could simply have the abundance mind set to pay those who come to contribute we could be expanding SEEDS exponentially. I feel we are not embodying our promise of abundance and are still stuck in the scarcity mindset. There is also a disconnect I see with the promise of decentralization and having one organization in control of SEEDS. This organization has the greatest intentions but I feel is disconnected from regular Seedizens that are the ones that would be best suited to grow the movement grassroots level.
Enough about the issue, let’s look at the solutions.
What I am passionate about contributing to the SEEDS Ecosystem is the virtue of justice. When I say justice I am concerned with the spiritual and philosophical meanings, not the justice system as we currently see breaking down with all the other systems of control and power in our planet.
I would like to open the conversation of justice in relationship to the SEEDS Ecosystem in two concepts
- “It is the moderation or mean between selfishness and selflessness – between having more and having less than one’s fair share”(Wiki) This I look at the wage and power distribution between members of HYPHA and those in SEEDS working just as hard, are just as talented and earn far less if any of that which HYPHA roles earn.
- Walk the Talk. I have noticed as well as many others in the space that the promises on the website, game guide and constitution are not currently being embodied in the ecosystem. For this I sense we need to create a circle of people who make sure that all things SEEDS align with the principles and promises that we are claiming. For this we have started the conflict resolution and justice channel on Discord to eventually form a proposal and circle.
The actual solution I can see is super simple and precedent has been made to do this without further referendum. This is for all active Seedizens to be able to submit proposals to the co-op for quests, contributions and roles. The same that is currently only being afforded to HYPHA members on the HYPHA DHO. Previously the co-op was specifically for campaigns to gift Seeds to the world through campaigns. Since it is now being used to fund the MBC I believe it also opens it up to fund individuals and groups to carry out quests to expand the movement. After all this would be just and fair.
With this said I think the answer is already here and we could start submitting requests this next cycle. What I would love to see someone do is actually do a needs based request like below as opposed to a HYPHA salary band request as currently done in the HYPHA DHO. I think this one change would signal so much as to what is just in our new world we are creating with SEEDS. For example my proposal would look like this:
Sample Co-Op Campaign Proposal
How would these Seeds be used? How will people participate?
- A part of these Seeds will pay to support me while I contribute to the SEEDS movement. Currently I am contributing full time with the following contributions:
- In my local community of San Marcos la Laguna and the greater bioregion as an ambassador onboarding new members and organizations
- Contribute to the DHO we are building for San Marcos and the bioregion where I am meeting regularly with the dev team and working with the mayors office and community to get feedback and find early adoption and private funding
- Manage the Bosque de Comida project providing food security in San Marcos through guerrilla gardening
- Manage and grow the local liquidity fund through private investors in Seeds
- Be active in the SEEDS Global community by my participation in the online discussions
- Creating a Justice Circle for SEEDS
- Contributing to the formation of RE
- A part will go to fund the Bosque de Comida project I am currently funding from my own Seeds wallet. This project pays a basic earned income to agriculturists to regeneratively plant food for the community. Currently I am the lead on the project and coordinating the Muni, MAGA, the administration, investors, educators and agriculturists. Bosque de Comida Project outline and budget
Participants will be paid to perform roles in the Bosque de Comida Project and to develop the DHO (currently being privately funded with Seeds and not included in this proposal request)
How will this serve the regenerative movement?
By having my basic needs met I can fully make myself available to work on the projects outlined above which are all related to SEEDS and the regenerative renaissance.
How many people will benefit from this campaign?
The far reaching implications of my work are hard to quantify. Directly from this proposal the people receiving funds include:
Why are you asking for this amount?
I have the following monthly needs:
- Rent $600
- Food $600
- Transportation $300
- Other $300
The Bosque de Comida project currently has these monthly needs:
- Budget to buy native seeds and materials to grow seedlings $150
- Allowance for Agriculturist based on 1 at full time earning Q25/hour based on 40 hours/week $550
- Campaign Manager $100/week $400
- Workshop per month with food for up to 10 people includes $100 for facilitator and $100 for food and space fees $200
- Trash collection allowance $100
- Social Media Allowance $100
Total Monthly Needs $3300
3 month allocation requested $9900
I believe a request like this for people who are showing up big in the discussions on Discord and are active players would be totally reasonable. I personally don’t think I would get support from the community until I heal what’s up for me in SEEDS so you won’t see this proposal on the next voting cycle. However I hope some of those who are active and are not in HYPHA roles submit requests. I will campaign like crazy to make sure you get votes.
I see that as an interesting overview of a potential structure for a DHO, @Carleymonty.
Why not create a DHO prototype for it with a SEEDS Co-op proposal funding that would fund up to 10 people (or maybe start with 5? your choice…) like you who are “Grassroot Gardeners” - for 3 months. 10 people would cost around ~1-1.2 mil Seeds for the 3 months. The DHO could oversee how these people are “chosen” and how much value are they delivering and present that to the community at the end of the 3-month cycle. I would personally love to support that kind of initiative.
If the RE space becomes something like an Accelerator for this kind of projects - you could initially manage that with our support and if at the end of the 3-month cycle the results for SEEDS are positive - you could continue that initiative within a separate DHO with its own governance structure, etc.
How does that sound to you?
I really, really loved the way you laid it out, because what you’ve described sits right in my own personal sweet spot.
A question, though: if I were to put something like this together that reflects my own circumstance, what would I do with it? Is it submitted as a proposal at Co-op Proposals? Or would it be submitted here for RE to evaluate?
Even if it doesn’t result in any funding, I think the exercise itself could be quite enlightening and I’m happy to give it a bash.
To be honest I don’t think I want to play in SEEDS at this time. I came back, checked in, gave my 2 Seeds and can tell I’m not able to really contribute. There was a very wise soul who reached out to me and was able to articulate exactly what I have been intuitively feeling:
“whatever you are going to propose as a solution on the practical level may fail, not because of any flaw in the proposal itself, but because of the not resolved heart pain behind…Personally I believe that the “broken trust” issue needs to be addressed first and cleared up. And after that everything will fall into its place effortlessly and gracefully”
Since re engaging in this space I have received various private messages from HYPHA members upset at me for speaking my truth signaling to me that the system is what it is and no body at the top wants to accept any responsibility for the way things are. I hope that I have been somewhat valuable to the conversation but I need to pull back and put my energy where it will be able to make a difference. Today I wrote this on the RE general chat:
You are correct @Fabi (Zurich) I am not able to exist in an organization that is out of alignment with my values. The promise and people of SEEDS are beautiful. The awesome technology that has been created is able to change the world! However the culture is where I feel there is a disconnect. I feel that as long as HYPHA is in control there won’t be any justice in the organization. In my experience and conversations the Seedizens are very different than HYPHA members and there is a misalignment of values between the two.
I will continue to work in the shadows to help people and orgs like I have the past 6 months with ghost writing and funding for proposals. I will continue to do my work here in my local community with the Seeds I have. I am wrapping up the art campaign with a final project I will share with you all once completed.
I feel that SEEDS is out of alignment with the promises it makes on the website, constitution and gane guide. I have too much pain inside to be effective in any discussion or contribute to any solution. I wish it were different for me.
I hope that the inner circle takes the justice and conflict mediation as one of the core components of what their doing. I feel we need to focus on a culture of authentic relating based in non violent communication. There’s now a channel in the Seeds server for this discussion. Joost has an NVC trainer wanting to do a SEEDS training and I highly recommend this happens, if only I had watched his video before throwing my judgements all over this space the past few weeks I might have had some better outcomes.
I’m going to sign off for a bit and go within and I’ll come check back in and see where you are all at in a few months. I know by the private messages I’ve received from HYPHA members this comes a a huge relief.
With this said I’m selling a large amount of my liquid Seeds so if anyone want to trade for other cryptos, please hit me up!
I would love to see you propose this on the co-op for yourself. I know Rieki says that there would be too much to handle there but really I only see a handful of people like yourself that are actively engaged in the conversations and are not in roles in HYPHA, MBC or Samara. I don’t think it needs to be reviewed by RE, that’s just more politics. If anything send it directly to those citizens that know you and have trust tokens to vote for it. Make connections and build trust like you did with me. If you do post something let me know and I’ll happily give you my trust tokens!
I would love to contribute to this endeavour Michael. We could maybe start a ‘conscious bridge builder’ DHO.
What do you think?
We could start with a spreadsheet like Samara did. I can’t find the spreadsheet any more but I am sure someone has it handy and can share it with us.
No worries, if you’d prefer dancing solo
I’ve had a long, hard think about all things SEEDS over the last 48 hours, and I’m not sure this is the right soil for me to be planting my fledgling seeds. It’s been a long and not very comfortable journey, but it feels right to step back for a bit.
So, I’m going to remain engaged, but not very active in these kinds of propositions. I’m not too keen to lead anything, but very happy to contribute if called on.
It could boost the whole moveement tremendously and should be approached as soon as possible. The problem with paying people an income while not having established a market with SEEDS is that people will need to swap it to fiat. depending on the scale thsi could influence the price of seeds.
If there would be people on the other hand who accepted seeds and the people in hypha who are getting payed could spend it on farmers and craftsmen it could greatly benefit the movement and create real flow that would not even need great participation from big companies.Eventhough that is a valuable idea as well.
We have a local liquidity pool here in my community we started to help with adoption. DAO Universe is a ministry who has provided liquidity to my art project and other projects needing to trade out. Finally there is an opportunity to have HYPHA fund the liquidity since they are holding the cash from the sales of SEEDS. I believe a liquidity pool would be an amazing campaign to propose. Basically SEEDS would sell Seeds and hold the cash instead of HYPHA selling Seeds and paying themselves with it.
Here in San Marcos we are working on a privately funded DHO that is diversified with different crypto assets, SEEDS being one of them. Imagine if each DHO had a dedicated finance circle to grow their fund instead of just spending what they get given by the ecosystem. Our finance guru has been sitting in on HYPHA finance calls and has some ideas to help HYPHA manage their fund to grow faster.
All this to say we definitely need more liquidity. People want to buy Seeds and I don’t see why the different groups shouldn’t be able to create their own pools.
@Kath.PlanetHive , @mbh66 I feel your pain. And I want to apologize on the behalf of the core team as it’s our responsibility to make this RE journey amazing for everyone (which includes support around funding your participation). We’ve done a poor job of doing all this(thus far) and dispelling all the stacked-up confusion about it. That is for various reasons, but I think we will start making progress very soon.
I’m thinking about creating a Co-op campaign that will cover remuneration for a well-made structure for the various levels of engagement and effort that people put into RE. I also envision having an accelerator space where prototypes for DHOs or even individual projects could be researched and developed in a safe and supported space - before going into a proposal - with some financing plus coaches and experts from the community. I’m not sure I’ll have the power to do it in the coming Co-op cycle but I aspire to. Would you guys be open to participating more in that way when/if that happens?
Carley - first - I personally think that you’re projecting a lot of your own desires on top of RE and especially Inner Space. Which is perfectly fine. I’m afraid however that if you don’t come and build what you envision - there will not be enough energy or motivation from other people to create the structures that you’d like to exist. That’s my current prespective.
Second - about the liquidity pool - there is a ~$1mil ETH liquidity pool in Uniswap at the moment. It was set up in the last couple of weeks. You can read about how to use it here. There is a fee - but anyone is able to exchange substantial amounts of Seeds <-> ETH through it. And if you have resources - you can set up your own liquidity pool there. Anyway - direct swap with people is still a lot cheaper and hassle-free.
Sounds like a great idea, Apostol, and thanks for the explanation.
As you and I discussed on the call today, the whole compensation discussion went way off track for me personally, and I was a little caught by surprise, since that’s not the main reason I’m here.
Anyway, please don’t (yet) include me in any planned accelerator, although I’d be happy to provide input in the planning stages if that’s what’s needed.
Thank you @apostol for your wholehearted apology on behalf of the core team.
Aroha mai. Aroha atu.
I like the idea of a Co-op campaign to support all explorers. I am happy to contribute.
Re the accelerator space - which is all music to my ears - I feel that an incubator space where we give birth to DHO might be a starting point here. But we are probably having a similar idea and it is just semantics.
Yes please keep me in mind for both of your suggestions.
1 unit of value = §111
4000 units to be distributed = §444.000
1 unit of value can represent 1h of time or another proposed value metric. I personally believe time is a valuable asset in a human live but many more value metrics are possible.
Anyone within (without?) RE can request to be rewarded and describe the value they bring. This can be an open creative space and we might see different value sets coming up.
For your value to be validated I suggest 3 flags up and no flag down. This could be facilitated in the GPP, here on Discourse or with a dedicated spreadsheet. Note: self governance comes with great dedication from the community to keep track of this.
§111 are §111 and there is no need to count back in USD. In 3 months it will still be §111. So if you do count back anyway, the value we reward goes up over time.
I suggest to cap the amount of units rewarded per month per person to 40 units. What would resonate with 33pax x 3m x 40u (example) as variable rewards on top of the journey reward.
All excess funding can in the end be distributed in a money pile celebration event.