Financing RExplorers - A New Proposal

First, apologies for not having been part of the original discussions around creating the hypha quest and proposals. That being said, from what I was seeing from the sidenlines, I didn’t see anything objectionable while we created these proposals.

But now, I’ve had some time to think about this. There’s also an existential crisis knocking at our door, so this is not about RE Explorers - it’s about Hypha, Seeds, Explorers, and the entire world.

Here is my simple proposal as to how to finance RE Explorers:

  • The project runs for 3 moon cycles
  • Each REExplorer that participates in all activities receives 100k Seeds for their efforts. Potentially 50% deferred (value locked up in escrow)
  • Funding comes from a Seeds proposal

Why

Seeds finances Seeds activity.

There’s a potential that the coin will be very valuable, and each one participating here will receive an outsize reward. That is balanced by the risk that the coin fails and it’s never worth anything. Risk - reward are balanced.

What about paying rent?
Seeds are semi-liquid on uniswap right now, so people can cash out small quantities if they so desire.

Compared to the current proposals
I have to admit I don’t fully understand the RE Seeds proposal - it seems it would suffice to pay 17 RE explorers 100k Seeds. But it seems to be set up in a different way - I posted a question there.

The Hypha Proposal
I understand the proposal from both sides. From the side of RE Explorers, it’s a small remuneration per month for work done - it’s not lavish by any means. I’ve heard it’s 777 USD / Month / Explorer. That’s not a lot on an indivudual basis. So that’s one side - it’s a modest, reasonable request as RE Explorers is concerned.

But there’s a whole other side, and for this I would invite you to put on the hat of a ReFi circle lamp lighter looking at the budget.

The total remaining budget of Hypha as of right now is 800k.

The total remaining budget for the ReFi circle is a guesstimated 100k - which is fine, that will last us several months, no problem.

But if we spend 57k on that on REexplorers, it makes very little sense - because then we will run out of cash developing the things we need to develop.

I was thinking why this is such a discrepancy and I think it mostly has to do with number of people. There is no way, from a Hypha perspective, that working on finishing up and reviewing the game guide can take 17 people doing it for 3 months. Again - this is from the Hypha perspective.

The added value from the Seeds perspective is to decentralize the knowledge - this is a university, a learning center, and also a review and publishing vehicle. It really is very valuable to decentralize but such activity has to be funded by Seeds. Hypha doesn’t have the capacity - for us I think it’s well good enough to release the GG as is, maybe review it a bit more with 2 people, not 17, and ship it, and give it into the hands of the Seeds citizens to take further.

Again - from the perspective of RE Explorers, that’s not what’s being done here, here, we do something incredible for the ecosystem, the full decentralization and spinning out of the GG. But as any project, failure is possible. Maybe the people here aren’t the right people? Maybe everyone is getting discouraged and realizes high risk high fun assignments aren’t a fit for their life? It’s not a cushy office job to create a new civilization. It’s a risk. It requires putting everything on the line.

There are many people who want to create a new civilization, but the vast majority are not willing to risk their livelihood, safety, and life on it. That’s ok - they may have another calling.

But here, as of this time, we are still on the bleeding edge, we are still in hungry mode, and it’s in my opinion still only for those who are willing to put it all on the line.

This is a high risk / high reward funding proposal that fits and is in line with how new coins generally finance themselves, generating their own abundance out of the will and the energy of the people playing here.

I have spoken my mind - thank - please speak yours, I love all of you!

PS: I have also not discussed this with anyone prior, but I have received inquiries on due diligence on this proposal since the ReFI circle was mentioned as the root circle for the Hypha proposal.

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Thank you Nikolaus, for articulating your thoughts and reservations.


What Daya and many other Exploring drivers, are attempting, is trying to account for contributing volunteers, helping in understanding and developing meaningful engagement on the ground / amongst seedizens, with interesting accounting experiments (like 111 seeds/perhoura - base metric for contribution) to help create more seeds liquidity pool, so there are more seeds to go around, to spur transactions (not Fiat swaps - supported from token.seeds reserve)


Though regarding Hypha’s operational expense is a serious tension, (for future of all Hypha, SEEDs, explorers, seedizens) and we as RE Explorers here must take a deep look into how we have funded the ecosystem so far and how we must continue doing it going forward.

Current economic model, where Hypha raises fund via sales of token.seeds to fund Hypha, must have a clear separation, where seedsizens from seeds ecosystem must sustain the seeds sales and peer swap services, (instead of hypha), because the 3.3% appreciation with each round of 1million seeds sales, has reached a stage where price of seeds no longer makes sense from a prespective for seeds ecosystem, while large holders of seeds (i.e. hypha members) should no longer receive seeds as it creates skewed outcomes in peer swap (for did they fund regeneration, or abundance? with their seeds or was it hyper inflationary GRQS get rich quick scheme!), for seeds should ideally function in real world application on ground regenerative actions (thus more diversity of transactional use case comes under our belt, instead of excessively complicated IT tools), which will have more meaning for our ultimate user base.


It’s like a catch 22 situation.

Without meaningful user base, tools have no meaning, without products people can fall in love with, there is no user base.

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Thanks @Aryabhatta for your feedback.

I am not sure what you mean by engagement and volunteers and so on. RE Explorers is not movement building, it’s an attempt to decentralize the game guide. Decentralizing the game guide - and the assorted knowledge and almost sacred duty to take care of the game itself, as guardians of the game guide of sorts - is as i have mentioned above very important. However, it needs to be financed by Seeds at this point, for reasons mentioned above.

The sale is its own thing - this is how we designed it. It was designed it the way it is so that rather than having a massive ICO where large investors snap up big chunks of Seeds, we can instead slowly sell and make all interested parties aware of the opportunity. Drumming up a big ICO would be best if Hypha’s intent was to raise as much capital as quickly as possible - but that was never the intent. Because for Seeds, it’s a lot better to have a very wide distribution of, and it’s better if the distribution is for allies first, and everyone else later.

Saying that a sale puts a burden on anyone is strange to me. Nobody has to buy, there’s no burden, you don’t have to buy in, it’s voluntary, nobody “has to” put up support, anyone who is interested can jump in, and if you’re not feeling it, don’t.

Anyway this all seems unrelated to my proposal.

In this proposal I have laid out why spending Hypha’s cash on a large number of people does not make a lot of sense.

And I have laid out how the Seeds system generates its own abundance. Seeds is aiming to be different from all existing cryptos, some of which have raised literally billions of dollars without significant user base, as investors (rightly) invest in potentials.

Needless to say I don’t share your bleak outlook, but also, if we asked 1000 people when we first set out, 1000 of them would have said, no way this can work. That’s nothing new. I am interested in making it work :wink:

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Things I like:

  1. Way more upside potential for RE folks to make a lot more value here (I do like this… doubles down when RE asks for an alliance too, and RE tokens have a claim to the alliance Seeds).

  2. Maybe milestone 3 then we can have RE pitch what it will bring to SEEDS and start splitting the Sale Seeds income if we win some votes from Citizens to get a share of the budget.

  3. Then we use milestone Seeds to be able to sell on Uniswap / get revenue from the Hypha sale portal to fund our upfront costs (which could also pan out being higher than the salaries asked from Hypha quest).


What I don’t like:

  1. Adds more complexity which will take a bit more time to get right.

Ultimately, I love this thinking as it could give a LOT more value to each of you for being here, and I like that idea.

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In early days of RE, two words that sticks out for me was “Alchemist” (alchemising in real world to see how game is played and playing it in new ways) and “Architects” (creating forms and structures for the game).

Tension which I would like to call out, those who have figured out Hypha and getting compensated on regular basis, may not necessarily understand how painful it is for those who volunteer their hours (for months), just trying to figure out Hypha and be able to be as comfortable as their peers!


Regarding discussion of Token.Seeds:

  1. Agree with you @nikolaus this topic deserves a thread of its own and would love to understand the design and its background.

  2. Ok. No one has to buy! How do you expect liquidity on the ground to happen? How do you create meaningful engagement? Are we building just tools or cultivating community!?


Indeed, its merely question of prespective, since I find myself more remote to the work hours, many have put in for years, thus able to see where Abundance is “Not Working” despite how much one continues to make claim.

Lets explore this together under economics model.


Appreciate your presence and participation here on discourse. I will try my best to rein in criticism and offer constructive suggestions.

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Perhaps the outcome of building this RE soil, is the capacity for Seeds token to grow from the flows created and nourished here and too by Data Portals …methods derived alchemically by which some of these activities can be Mapped, shared, grown organically.

I for one can’t separate the function of putting Seeds into practice and safeguarding. As a natural builder, the blueprints are always reshaped by the practice in time and place according to factors unique to each environment and it’s the shared language or tools that arise in concert with the capacity to alter those tools according to real need that become the shared value. Can’t we actually create economy from these RE activities? Or at least a mechanism in place to track how we as a practicing group contribute to the overall ecosystem, not only now but post ‘live’ ?

I hope this comment adds value. I’m still one getting used to the various environments, and not altogether smoothly I hesitate to add…and trying to balance on-line time and contribution with an actual garden. I see the immense value in both of these modalities feeding one another in ways that I don’t see happening quite yet and this is the area that excites me most… How to actually practice, how to play the game so I am growing Seeds in a way that supports like Natures Succesion patterns supports. Making this visible, the actual growing of Seeds.

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Hi everyone

About the Seeds proposal

I am fully behind the proposal we are having out now for voting with the 4 sections.

  • fixed rewards
  • variable rewards
  • outcome specific rewards for art and stories
  • incubation rewards for developing the next steps

It will be complex to execute but offers a lot of opportunities to create a more horizontal structure and creativity release in my opinion. I like the idea, in general, to make efforts so rewarded Seeds are spread towards more regenerators. More than an even smaller group of people attracting sizeable amounts of Seeds (and in some cases hard currency in exchange for that and vice versa). The law of attraction is a powerful tool and mindset in this world.

The amounts of Seeds in the current proposal are maybe not as Abundant in current dollar value as is common throughout the SEEDSpace and maybe I am defending this because I mistake “sufficiency” for “lack” … why would we accept “enough” and look for a valuation of “enough”. Aren’t we deserving of way more than “enough”?

Actually, Seeds are only one of the forms of capital going around. We are building social capital, knowledge capital, and reputation capital as well. What are the opportunities of Abundance in all these other forms of capital that surround us?

About the Hypha Quest

With a small group of people, we have been looking into how to energize and catalyze this journey. I believe we are creating an identity and core for Renaissance Explorers. This is a sizeable task and we are learning along the way.

@julioholon
@Rieki
@nikolaus
@anahealingwords
@apostol
@Samara_StartupShaman
@MaxVBohn
@joaoestellita
@niki
and myself @DaYa

This is a core group comparable in size to the full current MBC or Samara.

I personally believe we have the potential of serious playful added value.
As well as having already created value in sensemaking and development so far.

I believe we do create an “invaluable” service for Hypha in uplifting the technology (blueprint).
And we do create an “invaluable” service for SEEDS in uplifting the community (collective intelligence)

MBC is reaching outwards into the regenerative world welcoming and assisting new players into the space. We are reaching inwards in a collective effort to question ourselves and the movement we are making together. We are preparing ourselves to bring meaningful change and agility that is needed for this ecosystem to succeed. I would suggest the time is now.

I am on a wonderful journey and would love to continue that journey. Together with Hypha, MBC, Samara, and all entities to come. We are creating building blocks and downloading patterns for the next 7 generations. I am personally not in a hurry and I welcome everything that is arising.

Should we be recognized and rewarded for our efforts by Hypha in the way it is REquested now?

Should we go through this exercise for a third time to come up with a quest that is reasonable for both parties?

Should we let go of asking for rewards from Hypha and focus fully on our own path within Seeds?
This will need to be in a way that we keep strong ties with Hypha at the same time as we are so closely related to technology development. The Game Guide is the written blueprint of SEEDS.

In honor of Hypha, MBC, Samara, and all of you Renaissance Explorers

DaYa

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In addition to the Core Team of RE there are others participating, so I would just like to be sure that the compensation options are not going to be limited to the Core players and that everyone who has participated will be compensated (if anyone is), even if those who have shown the most commitment end up getting the most rewards (as it should be, of course). And this should always be the case where there is a committed team supported by others who have less opportunity to contribute. Otherwise we end up with a ‘paid workers plus volunteers’ situation which is probably not going to be sustainable long-term.

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Kind of want to be on this list. Wondering how the inclusion, exclusion feels to others who contribute in this space?

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It feels ok to me as I only have time to contribute to the Outer Space, but if someone is coming to all three spaces every time then I think they should be included in the Core Team.

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This proposal by @nikolaus can actually be a great base to step upon for the next funding cycle after Sep 21’ - after the first RE cohort is finished. To make room for a few people with more engagement that would get the potential RE DHO going. :rocket: :four_leaf_clover: :railway_track:

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Thank you for sharing @LaLaGardens :raised_hands:
I have similar feelings despite not attending live gatherings I feel I am contributing to the best of my abilities.

If no one mind, I share the view from where I am standing from a purely observational point without no judgement towards any one or any decision that has been made. (I acknowledge that all of us just try to figure it out) :purple_heart:

When we embarked on this journey, I was extremely excited to hear in the welcome video (Session 0?) from @Rieki that we’ll be compensated on this exploration. I was stoked. :sparkles: Since no one talked about it, I went onto the Hypha DHO in the assumption there will be RE roles to apply for. But I couldn’t find any. I learned the lesson to not simply assume things, but I felt awkward to bring up the topic for two reasons; 1. I was afraid I might have missed some information, so I waited for new zoom recordings to see if it would be addressed; 2. I feel no one ever talks in SEEDS about compensation and how others meet their needs from the old system and so I didn’t want to step into a pitfall, I guess.

When @apostol shared the wonderful proposal he and others brought to life, I said to myself ‘sweet, they take somehow care of us. That’s why they are the core team. :two_hearts:’ When I then saw the Hypha Quest on another server but never brought up with all explorers explicitly, I felt somehow excluded, despite me acknowledging all the effort that the core team has already dedicated to RE for several months. I am deeply grateful for the heart and soul everyone has given who came before me. What made me feel excluded was simply the lack of transparency around the Hypha Quest.

I deeply appreciate @nikolaus contribution and experience sharing to this conversation and the conversation hosted by @Melanie on Regenerative flows and shadow work: Regenerative flows and shadow work - #13 by nikolaus :pray:

I am standing on the sideline re proposals, simply because I feel this isn’t my area of expertise, so I have trust in my fellow explorers who are more experienced to bring forward a new proposal to SEEDS, if that is the pathway to walk along. I am also putting faith into what will evolve from within the space.

Having said that, and in response to @apostol’s comment from earlier today:

This proposal by @nikolaus can actually be a great base to step upon for the next funding cycle after Sep 21’ - after the first RE cohort is finished. To make room for a few people with more engagement that would get the potential RE DHO going. :rocket: :four_leaf_clover:

I sadly won’t be able to keep my feet still for something that might kick off in Sep 21. I am shuffling on a 4 week budget with no contingency at the moment. Yes, this is the life I’ve chosen for the sole purpose to dedicate my skills to a better world. Trust me I do know this is the right thing to do despite the lack of perceived security that is deeply rooted in the German culture I grew up in. I’ve never been happier in my life! I can explore my ikigai so much more profoundly as I finally can give enough space to my inner voice.

I try to draw a line between my lifestyle choice and the journey the topic RE compensation has taken but the line gets sometimes blurry, probably for all of us. :woman_shrugging:

In general I feel, we shy away from these blurry spaces. I’ve seen the need to talk about compensations being brushed away by mentioning ‘self-governance’ and ‘everyone is responsible for their life’ and ‘we wouldn’t be here without sacrifices’. Yes I agree with all three points.

Still I feel a deep tension inside me, I guess because I expect more of us as community and the new civilisation we are building, especially in times where reality is already unbearable (not to mention the years ahead).

Shouldn’t we as a community look out for one another, so that we don’t loose fellow journeyer because they need to meet their old system needs? Do we feel safe enough to bring these needs to the space? I must admit I didn’t so far but I would like to change it, if others are willing to.

With love,
Kath :green_heart:

I didn’t expect this to be such a long post. I hope this resonates well with you all.

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Am I correct in thinking that the ‘core team’ has done a Hypha Quest to fund themselves, (thereby excluding the other people in RE?)

Or have I got totally the wrong end of the stick here?

Or something in between?

Thanks for any clarifications.

This is how it landed it with me. My tension came from the lack of transparency around it but I might have missed communications around it. :love_you_gesture:

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